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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 5:16 pm 
Wily Machine
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Oh yeah... I guess you're right. Weeeeeellllllllllllllllllllll

I guess it's the first FINALIZED album to be just about the robots :P

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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 5:47 pm 
Yellow Devil
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dragonsama wrote:
Overall I really like the album but I am a bit disappointed there is no "Doc Robot" song. I think it would have been cool to have a call back to all 8 Robot masters from Mega Man 2 since they do "appear" in 3.

It could have been a medley of the robot masters songs from Get Equipped using the Boss fight theme to tie them together and Wily talking about how he is bringing the dead back to to defeat Mega Man and give his previous Robots a chance for revenge. Not having something like that on there seams like a missed opportunity.

Alas it was not to be maybe something like that will pop up on a single album or as a download.


There were two tracks (not including the victory jingles) that didn't end up making it onto the album, though I would love to have heard a Megas rendition of them, it's just not to be it seems.

As far as Doc Robot goes, the way I see it, he is kinda prevalent in the Robot Masters themselves as part of the new coding or a failsafe sort of thing (something similar to the Sigma Virus of the X Series), for example the voice Needle Man hears in his head.

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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 6:02 pm 
Mettaur
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ShadowZero wrote:
dragonsama wrote:
Overall I really like the album but I am a bit disappointed there is no "Doc Robot" song. I think it would have been cool to have a call back to all 8 Robot masters from Mega Man 2 since they do "appear" in 3.

It could have been a medley of the robot masters songs from Get Equipped using the Boss fight theme to tie them together and Wily talking about how he is bringing the dead back to to defeat Mega Man and give his previous Robots a chance for revenge. Not having something like that on there seams like a missed opportunity.

Alas it was not to be maybe something like that will pop up on a single album or as a download.


There were two tracks (not including the victory jingles) that didn't end up making it onto the album, though I would love to have heard a Megas rendition of them, it's just not to be it seems.

As far as Doc Robot goes, the way I see it, he is kinda prevalent in the Robot Masters themselves as part of the new coding or a failsafe sort of thing (something similar to the Sigma Virus of the X Series), for example the voice Needle Man hears in his head.

Though something can be said for the idea that they were all just crazy from when Wily reprogrammed them, rather than it being the Doc Robots trying to take control.


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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 6:47 pm 
BUFF McWhalen
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I don't love the repgrogrammed brain-damage theory, because it doesn't fit very well with Blue.

I'd like to find another way to look at it.

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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 6:54 pm 
Mettaur
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ChaoticFox wrote:
I don't love the repgrogrammed brain-damage theory, because it doesn't fit very well with Blue.

I'd like to find another way to look at it.


I guess you're right about it not fitting with blue, but it seems to make the most sense for the Robot Masters featured in Red. All of them feature a voice that they are talking to, and other than Geminiman who can easily be excused, it doesn't make much sense without that theory. Maybe Rock took a break between Blue and Red, explaining both Continue and Fly on a Dog, which gave the old personalities time to resurface a little.


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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 7:01 pm 
Yellow Devil
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ChaoticFox wrote:
I don't love the repgrogrammed brain-damage theory, because it doesn't fit very well with Blue.

I'd like to find another way to look at it.

Sounds like a good reason to listen through the whole of History Repeating again. Maybe even GE....

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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 7:02 pm 
Mettaur
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ShadowZero wrote:
ChaoticFox wrote:
I don't love the repgrogrammed brain-damage theory, because it doesn't fit very well with Blue.

I'd like to find another way to look at it.

Sounds like a good reason to listen through the whole of History Repeating again. Maybe even GE....


We needed a reason in the first place?


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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 7:18 pm 
Yellow Devil
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Truomae wrote:
ShadowZero wrote:
ChaoticFox wrote:
I don't love the repgrogrammed brain-damage theory, because it doesn't fit very well with Blue.

I'd like to find another way to look at it.

Sounds like a good reason to listen through the whole of History Repeating again. Maybe even GE....


We needed a reason in the first place?

Touché

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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 8:11 pm 
Mettaur
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So... when is the lyrics page going to get updated?

I rather like having them all in one place :)


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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 8:36 pm 
Wily Machine
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BTB wrote:
So... when is the lyrics page going to get updated?

I rather like having them all in one place :)


Given how HR: Blue turned out, we won't get them until the albums ship and arrive.

Trust me, we were a lot worse off last time, because we had to transcribe them all from how they sounded and there were lots of homophones that needed to be changed.

I miss those times though. It was a lot more fun, but we had the night where Josh dropped almost all the lyrics :P

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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 12:54 am 
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i think one of my favorite themes from this was the growing apparency of the Madness of Wily and how he's having fewer and fewer scruples in how he obtains his goals.
like the theme started in get equipped, with Crash Man, who was reprogrammed to be forced to fight
in history repeating: blue most of the robot masters still believe in Wily's ideals and are fighting of their own volition
but then we get the other side of the coin with history repeating: red where you have basically a bunch of robots who have been reprogrammed (shadow man) redesigned (needle man) and trapped (gemini man & needle man) in order to force them to come into conflict with mega man, all of which r incredibly shitty things to be doing to the robots you've previously called your 'children'
and maybe that kind of thing is a big part of what Wily is talking about in 'Gamma Unchained' where the ends have to justify the means. can he justify what he's done to his 'children' and find a way to move forward with his schemes?


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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 9:27 am 
Wily Machine
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roboreos wrote:
i think one of my favorite themes from this was the growing apparency of the Madness of Wily and how he's having fewer and fewer scruples in how he obtains his goals.
like the theme started in get equipped, with Crash Man, who was reprogrammed to be forced to fight
in history repeating: blue most of the robot masters still believe in Wily's ideals and are fighting of their own volition
but then we get the other side of the coin with history repeating: red where you have basically a bunch of robots who have been reprogrammed (shadow man) redesigned (needle man) and trapped (gemini man & needle man) in order to force them to come into conflict with mega man, all of which r incredibly shitty things to be doing to the robots you've previously called your 'children'
and maybe that kind of thing is a big part of what Wily is talking about in 'Gamma Unchained' where the ends have to justify the means. can he justify what he's done to his 'children' and find a way to move forward with his schemes?


Keep in mind, Crash Man was never reprogrammed. He was built to kill. Soiled in his conception, as he would say. Wily still likely cared for him, but Crash man came to feel that what Wily (and thereby Crash Man) was doing wasn't right.

Needle man, too, I think was not so much 'redesigned/reprogramed' as built looking like a killer. Like Crashman, he realizes that that is not who he wants to be. So he tries to change (and the two are different in how they try to change).

Shadow Man was absolutely reprogrammed/retrained. But it's also a metaphorical story for the desensitization to 'trying to feel righteous' - analogous to how Dr. Wily is feeling. Also, we don't know whether Shadow Man was forced to be retrained, accepted it, or even asked for it.

As for Gemini man - that one is still shrouded in mystery. A lot depends on who the rat is, and who the rat was taking orders from. It's not clear that Dr. Wily has a hand in his demise, nor is it definitive that Gemini was opposed to Dr. Wily.

I do agree with your overall assessment though - Wily is having less scruples, and things are growing out of control. Just like Shadow man, who may have voluntarily chosen to accept the shadows in the first place until realizing as he was about to die that the 'good' he once was is long gone. The justifiability Wily felt in Gamma Unchained was shattered the moment Gamma decided to eradicate all humans. The game changed. Where Wily now stands, however, is really hard to know.

Has Wily (in Megas fannon) now given up his dream, and wants world domination? Has he accepted the fact that to have the peace he seeks, humanity must be exterminated? Does he believe there's another way?

We don't know where Wily now is, so we can't say for sure how he feels about things being so out of control, or what it will result in.

---------------------------------------------------------

Also, this is probably important. What are everyone's thoughts on the following.

Do you think that the 4 RM in this album were designed at a different time than the earlier 4? Your view on this actually changes a lot.

On one hand, if the last 4 were made after the Gamma event, they reflect a desperation on Dr. Wily's part, constructing or reprogramming innocent robots and forcing them to try and get a clearly immoral situation back under control.

On the other hand, if the last 4 were still made at the same time as the first 4, then they were still built for the 'cause'. But their faith may have been challenged by Gamma, and their leader, Dr. Wily, is visibly shaken. The robot masters feel stress from both directions - Megaman is still out to get them and the Gamma event leaves them uncertain. Shadow Man continues along the same path as Gamma, but by the time he becomes the last robot master standing, begins to doubt his decision only to realize that whatever was good in him is gone.

So yeah, how much reprogramming do we thing Wily did? Were these robot masters part of the same team as Snake, Spark, Top and Magnet? I personally think they were! I don't actually hold the reprogrammed theory, instead, I think that the events of history repeating Blue shook these Robot Masters, they're fearing for their lives, Gamma is out of control, Wily is frantic, and the Blue Bomber is coming to kill them. That's enough to foster some self doubt.

EDIT: Another potential theory that I realized but am also not really all that convinced by: What if Gamma has taken charge of Wily's robot army? The remaining 4 robot masters are commanded to exterminate. They're no strangers to killing humans - Wily has had tactical strikes against humanity all along. But now Gamma has commanded utter extermination. That would also cause a lot of the evident self doubt that we see...

So really there are two questions. Are the RM in HR:Red new creations or were they created with the first 4? And who are they fighting for: Wily or Gamma?

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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 5:34 pm 
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Man, it's going to blow you guys' mind about Wily being unscrupulous when he starts straight up stealing robot masters and kidnapping people just to hold on to his hate boner over Light and Rock.

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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 5:49 pm 
Telly
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Jim Fear wrote:
Man, it's going to blow you guys' mind about Wily being unscrupulous when he starts straight up stealing robot masters and kidnapping people just to hold on to his hate boner over Light and Rock.

Tell me about it, If there's one thing Wily snows, it's how to hold a tournament. The Frost Annual Robot Tournament was the greatest X-games like series of events I've ever seen. Good times.


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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 5:49 pm 
Telly
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Helios wrote:
BTB wrote:
So... when is the lyrics page going to get updated?

I rather like having them all in one place :)


Given how HR: Blue turned out, we won't get them until the albums ship and arrive.

Trust me, we were a lot worse off last time, because we had to transcribe them all from how they sounded and there were lots of homophones that needed to be changed.

I miss those times though. It was a lot more fun, but we had the night where Josh dropped almost all the lyrics :P

"Take a bite, Mega Mon."


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